Forum Topics
Female Performer Chat: #1 fan game
So as Brad advised in another thread, I purchased the book. I have not made it completely through as reading it makes me want to puke, but here are my preliminary findings. I looked up the psychologist who reviewed the book. He is retired and his only scholarly contribution was an article on innovative marketing for therapists in the 1990's - brief therapy for brief attention spans and innovative alcohol treatment. It is no wonder the psychologist loved this book. Why anyone would push this eye-roll invoking farce of a book, outside of being the author's lover, is beyond me. One of the co-authors, Joselin Linder, has written such blockbusters as "The Good Girl's Guide to Living in Sin" and "The purity Test" with "The ultimate college Prank Book" soon to come out. The other co-author, Gabe Zichermann, can only really claim one contribution of any importance: Aspects of MySpace which is now quickly falling in popularity. He is basically the Paris Hilton of internet marketing. Of course with such a comprehensive and in depth background in the psychology of the online sex industry, how can we do anything but bend over and let such absurd and unrelated idea's completely take over a multi-million dollar business.
Do keep in mind that the techniques pushed in this book have not been tested in an adult entertainment arena.
First of all, the author's ability to write is not impressive in the least. It appears that he intended that the book be laid out like a text book, but somehow that was mangled horribly. It makes the book difficult to read and certain points that are related are pages apart due to horribly placed side bars.
Second, the author is taking a psychological metaphor literally and is using it to justify "fun ware" for everything. "Game playing" in psychology pertains to the archetypal scripts that are played out. An example is the script between an adult and a child. As psychological health improves, the game playing stops. The author comes off as borderline obsessive about games in general.
He claims that the line between work and play are blurring. I find this in particular disturbing. I appreciate professional boundaries in any industry and am always uncomfortable when it is otherwise. I do not want to call on a cop for protection and find that it is all a game and fun. Every time I have had to call on the police for help, it certainly wasn't fun for me. Imagine going to a gynecologist who was turning their environment into a game? "Ahhh...yes...you have herpes....you lose 5 points in the game".
Another absurd and disturbing topic that was brought up in the book was the army's brilliance in using games to recruit soldiers. At one time potential recruits were encouraged to play graphic video games specifically designed to make them feel pumped about killing people. This is present in many video games on the market, but there absolutely has to be a line drawn when it comes to something as serious as killing, even in a time of war. What happens though, in a situation like this? It all becomes a game, everyone is competing, and then Abu Ghraib happens. How are appropriate boundaries supposed to be upheld when the solitary goal in life is to play the game and win? A good deal of insight on this matter can be found in the book "On killing" by Dave Grossman. It doesn't apply to the entire game based marketing idea, but it does counter Zichermann and Linder's praise of the army and their attempts to use this tactic.
Funware is an intuitive concept. If you turn work into a game, people willingly do it. If you make a tedious school assignment into a game-like competition, kids will become engaged with it. If you add a rewards-based loyalty program to your product, people will choose it over a rival. The key word here is "product", not "service" as we provide here.
The author argues that time has come to "game-ify" all of the boring industries so that users will be motivated to use products and services because they want to, not because they have to. In fact, the author argues that just about any task can be designed so that it can be more fun. Just what becomes of the people involved?
If I had to have brain surgery, I would NOT want the operating surgeon to be engaged in some ridiculous game in which my life only counts as points to winning or losing. No thanks. You might find this example a bit extreme, and it is, but the author of this book suggests that EVERYTHING in life should be made "fun" and "game-like". So what else? Frequent flier miles to help stop the genocide in Darfur? Is that really what we all believe life should come down to? Are we so ignorant on the whole that we buy into this?
Why can't the Internal Revenue Service create some incentives so that filling out your taxes is fun? Yeah, because taxes are fun. I get a green stamp and a gold star for doing my taxes on time. I am certain that will motivate the masses of uneducated game playing losers.
It is a dumbing down of everything. Sure, some adults play games. There is a time and a place for it, as with anything.
Part of the problem is that flirt4free is already, by nature, fun. Our customers already love the performers. More advertising to bring in new customers is a given. As an adult based site providing intimacy to those unable or unwilling to obtain it in "real" life should not be a game. I don't need my masturbating to be like Grand Prix auto, or have my intimate moments with favorite models compared to others using a ranking system, all to promote the fortunes of the owners of the game. Not the players, not the game pieces, but the manufacturers. It simply does not mesh with an interactive adult site, as it doesn't mesh with any real service industry. Trying to make an adult site, with all that psychology that this sort of work entails, into an adolescent game is to change the dynamic of the relationships within the site. So all the adults will eventually leave and what will you be left with? Adolescents. Kids pretending to be adults, and kids don't spend big money. Adults do.
Sometimes a site like flirt is the only adult outlet for someone who has a fetish or a fantasy. Is it really appropriate to turn it into a game?
I also find the entire "make it a game" concept disturbing because games do have an END. The author suggests that funware should go on in perpetuity. Whether a person completes the game, or tires of the game and quits, the game always ends in one way or another. If we use video games as an example: a gamer might play a particular game two, maybe three times, then it is off to another game. If there is no end goal, if there is no REAL incentive to keep playing the game, then who will be interested in it in the long term if no one ultimately wins?
I have had some customers stay with me for 10 years of working on cam. The entire 10 years. They stayed because of the personal relationship I was able to develop with them, not because it was a game. "Funware" removes the personal aspect. These guys could easily go to a bar or even to their wives to get the same game. "I want to be her favorite so I'll buy her another drink". The customers who are spending 100k a year are not here to engage in a game and have their spending habits exposed for all to see. They are here for intimate moments with someone who isn't out to stab them in the back, who isn't going to judge them, but who is going to accept and at least pretend to care for them for the duration of their 'private' show. Privacy being another concept that is being weeded out. The anonymous button does not remove the effect that gaming has on the model or the client. A customer can still see a name ahead, and still feel badly because their illusion of being adored and favored is thus shattered.
Now, another aspect of this book is about removing obstacles for the potential players. The lowering of requirements for membership to a mere email address? Right out of this book. Get as many players as you possibly can to sign up so they can all compete with each other. Now granted this does appear to have a dual purpose in that somehow these increased numbers who are able to access everything works with search engines to increase traffic. Looking at it from the VS side, who does this really hurt? Well, it hurts the models. It hurts the paying customers. It does damage to the integrity of the site as a whole. It increases begging and abuse and that hurts everyone. A paying customer who visits a room and sees nothing but a sea of beggars isn't likely to stay in that room long, and unless the model has some customers who she has a personal relationship with to "rescue" her to a private show, she isn't going to get any business. White is now the new grey. The effort of VS to get everyone to buy a VIP account is utterly absurd. More and more good, and potentially good customers get lost in the sea of bleating whites who SHOULD be grey. Ultimately this will cause performers to quit and good clients to leave. What will be left then? Video on Demand. The future of Flirt4free will be VOD as a commodity. It will no longer be a service industry. It will follow in the footsteps of the "College Girls" sites from the 90's with recycled content being the primary method of earning potential even a decade later.
The author makes a claim that the interpersonal relationships between people, in a professional environment, is nothing but a game. He completely negates any human aspect to it, basically calling anyone who doesn't play this "game" a loser. The regular in your room who you do enjoy chatting with, despite it being work and your job, is nothing but a game. According to what the author says, there is absolutely no personal aspect to this relationship. It is a game to be exploited with no regard for the people involved.
In one chapter the author talks about World of Warcraft and what a negative thing it was. This game was addictive and did destroy lives. In the same breath he starts discussing how to exploit it. How to use it to get people addicted. The point of any business is to make money, it's a given. How are you going to have a customer for life if you set up your product to destroy them? We're talking about mindless zombies who will barely be able to keep working and functioning and feeding their money into our pockets as the bank kicks them out of their houses and takes their cars all while the Carney barker in drag disguised as a "game" shouts "SHOVE YA MONEY IN HEAH!!!! BE THE FIRST TO WIN A SPIN!!! PLAY THE GAME AND PROVE YA A MAN!!!". That's IF this game works out the way that it appears to be intended. How very Machiavellian.
There is such a thing as corporate personhood. The supreme court ruled under the first amendment that a corporation could act as a person. The thought of this is frightening, but if the business is a person then as Peter Drucker says, the business while making money is also being judged by other business, the consumers, and the market itself as to whether it has integrity, is personally responsible, and honorable.
So who does this game hurt? It hurts me, it hurts you, and it hurts your clients. It takes what is meant to at least provide the illusion of a close, intimate relationship between model and customer and turns it into an impersonal competition between all of a performers' fans. Where only one guy gets the allegedly good feeling of being #1 and a few meaningless points. The illusion of each individual being special is shattered, and seriously like I said, guys can just go to a bar for that and pay a hell of a lot less.
Are you willing to risk the entire future of flirt4free on just another marketing shtick? Perhaps you should just purchase Inflatable dolls with their huge 'O' shaped mouths, frozen forever in an expression of either shock or horror to sit in front of cams. We all know there are plenty of models doing that anyway. With the personal element slowly being removed, this substitution of shocked dolls and backup bicycle pumps would probably be more 'cost effective' and you would have fewer contractor complaints. Not to mention no longer having to deal with studio's and all the back stabbing bitchery that entails.
Some customers have already expressed their displeasure with the concept in the VIP forums, and some of those have indeed left. Other customers have already displayed the adolescent obsession with the game rather than with the models. Yet others are becoming even more jealous and difficult to handle in open chat when confronted with a rival. Based upon their comments in the forums, VS should consider offering online gaming programs as an option for customers.
*kisses and licks*
Esoterik Quote
Do keep in mind that the techniques pushed in this book have not been tested in an adult entertainment arena.
First of all, the author's ability to write is not impressive in the least. It appears that he intended that the book be laid out like a text book, but somehow that was mangled horribly. It makes the book difficult to read and certain points that are related are pages apart due to horribly placed side bars.
Second, the author is taking a psychological metaphor literally and is using it to justify "fun ware" for everything. "Game playing" in psychology pertains to the archetypal scripts that are played out. An example is the script between an adult and a child. As psychological health improves, the game playing stops. The author comes off as borderline obsessive about games in general.
He claims that the line between work and play are blurring. I find this in particular disturbing. I appreciate professional boundaries in any industry and am always uncomfortable when it is otherwise. I do not want to call on a cop for protection and find that it is all a game and fun. Every time I have had to call on the police for help, it certainly wasn't fun for me. Imagine going to a gynecologist who was turning their environment into a game? "Ahhh...yes...you have herpes....you lose 5 points in the game".
Another absurd and disturbing topic that was brought up in the book was the army's brilliance in using games to recruit soldiers. At one time potential recruits were encouraged to play graphic video games specifically designed to make them feel pumped about killing people. This is present in many video games on the market, but there absolutely has to be a line drawn when it comes to something as serious as killing, even in a time of war. What happens though, in a situation like this? It all becomes a game, everyone is competing, and then Abu Ghraib happens. How are appropriate boundaries supposed to be upheld when the solitary goal in life is to play the game and win? A good deal of insight on this matter can be found in the book "On killing" by Dave Grossman. It doesn't apply to the entire game based marketing idea, but it does counter Zichermann and Linder's praise of the army and their attempts to use this tactic.
Funware is an intuitive concept. If you turn work into a game, people willingly do it. If you make a tedious school assignment into a game-like competition, kids will become engaged with it. If you add a rewards-based loyalty program to your product, people will choose it over a rival. The key word here is "product", not "service" as we provide here.
The author argues that time has come to "game-ify" all of the boring industries so that users will be motivated to use products and services because they want to, not because they have to. In fact, the author argues that just about any task can be designed so that it can be more fun. Just what becomes of the people involved?
If I had to have brain surgery, I would NOT want the operating surgeon to be engaged in some ridiculous game in which my life only counts as points to winning or losing. No thanks. You might find this example a bit extreme, and it is, but the author of this book suggests that EVERYTHING in life should be made "fun" and "game-like". So what else? Frequent flier miles to help stop the genocide in Darfur? Is that really what we all believe life should come down to? Are we so ignorant on the whole that we buy into this?
Why can't the Internal Revenue Service create some incentives so that filling out your taxes is fun? Yeah, because taxes are fun. I get a green stamp and a gold star for doing my taxes on time. I am certain that will motivate the masses of uneducated game playing losers.
It is a dumbing down of everything. Sure, some adults play games. There is a time and a place for it, as with anything.
Part of the problem is that flirt4free is already, by nature, fun. Our customers already love the performers. More advertising to bring in new customers is a given. As an adult based site providing intimacy to those unable or unwilling to obtain it in "real" life should not be a game. I don't need my masturbating to be like Grand Prix auto, or have my intimate moments with favorite models compared to others using a ranking system, all to promote the fortunes of the owners of the game. Not the players, not the game pieces, but the manufacturers. It simply does not mesh with an interactive adult site, as it doesn't mesh with any real service industry. Trying to make an adult site, with all that psychology that this sort of work entails, into an adolescent game is to change the dynamic of the relationships within the site. So all the adults will eventually leave and what will you be left with? Adolescents. Kids pretending to be adults, and kids don't spend big money. Adults do.
Sometimes a site like flirt is the only adult outlet for someone who has a fetish or a fantasy. Is it really appropriate to turn it into a game?
I also find the entire "make it a game" concept disturbing because games do have an END. The author suggests that funware should go on in perpetuity. Whether a person completes the game, or tires of the game and quits, the game always ends in one way or another. If we use video games as an example: a gamer might play a particular game two, maybe three times, then it is off to another game. If there is no end goal, if there is no REAL incentive to keep playing the game, then who will be interested in it in the long term if no one ultimately wins?
I have had some customers stay with me for 10 years of working on cam. The entire 10 years. They stayed because of the personal relationship I was able to develop with them, not because it was a game. "Funware" removes the personal aspect. These guys could easily go to a bar or even to their wives to get the same game. "I want to be her favorite so I'll buy her another drink". The customers who are spending 100k a year are not here to engage in a game and have their spending habits exposed for all to see. They are here for intimate moments with someone who isn't out to stab them in the back, who isn't going to judge them, but who is going to accept and at least pretend to care for them for the duration of their 'private' show. Privacy being another concept that is being weeded out. The anonymous button does not remove the effect that gaming has on the model or the client. A customer can still see a name ahead, and still feel badly because their illusion of being adored and favored is thus shattered.
Now, another aspect of this book is about removing obstacles for the potential players. The lowering of requirements for membership to a mere email address? Right out of this book. Get as many players as you possibly can to sign up so they can all compete with each other. Now granted this does appear to have a dual purpose in that somehow these increased numbers who are able to access everything works with search engines to increase traffic. Looking at it from the VS side, who does this really hurt? Well, it hurts the models. It hurts the paying customers. It does damage to the integrity of the site as a whole. It increases begging and abuse and that hurts everyone. A paying customer who visits a room and sees nothing but a sea of beggars isn't likely to stay in that room long, and unless the model has some customers who she has a personal relationship with to "rescue" her to a private show, she isn't going to get any business. White is now the new grey. The effort of VS to get everyone to buy a VIP account is utterly absurd. More and more good, and potentially good customers get lost in the sea of bleating whites who SHOULD be grey. Ultimately this will cause performers to quit and good clients to leave. What will be left then? Video on Demand. The future of Flirt4free will be VOD as a commodity. It will no longer be a service industry. It will follow in the footsteps of the "College Girls" sites from the 90's with recycled content being the primary method of earning potential even a decade later.
The author makes a claim that the interpersonal relationships between people, in a professional environment, is nothing but a game. He completely negates any human aspect to it, basically calling anyone who doesn't play this "game" a loser. The regular in your room who you do enjoy chatting with, despite it being work and your job, is nothing but a game. According to what the author says, there is absolutely no personal aspect to this relationship. It is a game to be exploited with no regard for the people involved.
In one chapter the author talks about World of Warcraft and what a negative thing it was. This game was addictive and did destroy lives. In the same breath he starts discussing how to exploit it. How to use it to get people addicted. The point of any business is to make money, it's a given. How are you going to have a customer for life if you set up your product to destroy them? We're talking about mindless zombies who will barely be able to keep working and functioning and feeding their money into our pockets as the bank kicks them out of their houses and takes their cars all while the Carney barker in drag disguised as a "game" shouts "SHOVE YA MONEY IN HEAH!!!! BE THE FIRST TO WIN A SPIN!!! PLAY THE GAME AND PROVE YA A MAN!!!". That's IF this game works out the way that it appears to be intended. How very Machiavellian.
There is such a thing as corporate personhood. The supreme court ruled under the first amendment that a corporation could act as a person. The thought of this is frightening, but if the business is a person then as Peter Drucker says, the business while making money is also being judged by other business, the consumers, and the market itself as to whether it has integrity, is personally responsible, and honorable.
So who does this game hurt? It hurts me, it hurts you, and it hurts your clients. It takes what is meant to at least provide the illusion of a close, intimate relationship between model and customer and turns it into an impersonal competition between all of a performers' fans. Where only one guy gets the allegedly good feeling of being #1 and a few meaningless points. The illusion of each individual being special is shattered, and seriously like I said, guys can just go to a bar for that and pay a hell of a lot less.
Are you willing to risk the entire future of flirt4free on just another marketing shtick? Perhaps you should just purchase Inflatable dolls with their huge 'O' shaped mouths, frozen forever in an expression of either shock or horror to sit in front of cams. We all know there are plenty of models doing that anyway. With the personal element slowly being removed, this substitution of shocked dolls and backup bicycle pumps would probably be more 'cost effective' and you would have fewer contractor complaints. Not to mention no longer having to deal with studio's and all the back stabbing bitchery that entails.
Some customers have already expressed their displeasure with the concept in the VIP forums, and some of those have indeed left. Other customers have already displayed the adolescent obsession with the game rather than with the models. Yet others are becoming even more jealous and difficult to handle in open chat when confronted with a rival. Based upon their comments in the forums, VS should consider offering online gaming programs as an option for customers.
*kisses and licks*
Esoterik Quote
jeez, write you major thesis on another site and don't try to be so esoteric to make yourself seem intelligent take a few more drugs and break it all down again
Quote
Quote
jeez, write you major thesis on another site and don't try to be so esoteric to make yourself seem intelligent take a few more drugs and break it all down again
LMAO so nice to see you all communicative and out in the open cabbage boy... and you managed to spell an entire sentence properly today...
*speaks slowly for the benefit of cabbage boys slow wit* piss off now ya oozing pustule.. run along and claim to have hair on your ass to your 'favorite' male model
Quote
LMAO so nice to see you all communicative and out in the open cabbage boy... and you managed to spell an entire sentence properly today...
*speaks slowly for the benefit of cabbage boys slow wit* piss off now ya oozing pustule.. run along and claim to have hair on your ass to your 'favorite' male model
Quote
Created by:
lickau
7/15/10 @ 7:55pm
(EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Location: Moving slowly but surely somewhere sometime
Posts: 29,285
I won't pretend to waste my time on that book and read it .
Nice advertising tool aimed to people who use thier lower brain
It took a few minutes to read the whole post
Always great to read peoples well thought out opinions
Quote
Nice advertising tool aimed to people who use thier lower brain
It took a few minutes to read the whole post
Always great to read peoples well thought out opinions
Quote
So as Brad advised in another thread, I purchased the book. I have not made it completely through as reading it makes me want to puke, but here are my preliminary findings. I looked up the psychologist who reviewed the book. He is retired and his only scholarly contribution was an article on innovative marketing for therapists in the 1990's - brief therapy for brief attention spans and innovative alcohol treatment. It is no wonder the psychologist loved this book. Why anyone would push this eye-roll invoking farce of a book, outside of being the author's lover, is beyond me. One of the co-authors, Joselin Linder, has written such blockbusters as "The Good Girl's Guide to Living in Sin" and "The purity Test" with "The ultimate college Prank Book" soon to come out. The other co-author, Gabe Zichermann, can only really claim one contribution of any importance: Aspects of MySpace which is now quickly falling in popularity. He is basically the Paris Hilton of internet marketing. Of course with such a comprehensive and in depth background in the psychology of the online sex industry, how can we do anything but bend over and let such absurd and unrelated idea's completely take over a multi-million dollar business.
Do keep in mind that the techniques pushed in this book have not been tested in an adult entertainment arena.
First of all, the author's ability to write is not impressive in the least. It appears that he intended that the book be laid out like a text book, but somehow that was mangled horribly. It makes the book difficult to read and certain points that are related are pages apart due to horribly placed side bars.
Second, the author is taking a psychological metaphor literally and is using it to justify "fun ware" for everything. "Game playing" in psychology pertains to the archetypal scripts that are played out. An example is the script between an adult and a child. As psychological health improves, the game playing stops. The author comes off as borderline obsessive about games in general.
He claims that the line between work and play are blurring. I find this in particular disturbing. I appreciate professional boundaries in any industry and am always uncomfortable when it is otherwise. I do not want to call on a cop for protection and find that it is all a game and fun. Every time I have had to call on the police for help, it certainly wasn't fun for me. Imagine going to a gynecologist who was turning their environment into a game? "Ahhh...yes...you have herpes....you lose 5 points in the game".
Another absurd and disturbing topic that was brought up in the book was the army's brilliance in using games to recruit soldiers. At one time potential recruits were encouraged to play graphic video games specifically designed to make them feel pumped about killing people. This is present in many video games on the market, but there absolutely has to be a line drawn when it comes to something as serious as killing, even in a time of war. What happens though, in a situation like this? It all becomes a game, everyone is competing, and then Abu Ghraib happens. How are appropriate boundaries supposed to be upheld when the solitary goal in life is to play the game and win? A good deal of insight on this matter can be found in the book "On killing" by Dave Grossman. It doesn't apply to the entire game based marketing idea, but it does counter Zichermann and Linder's praise of the army and their attempts to use this tactic.
Funware is an intuitive concept. If you turn work into a game, people willingly do it. If you make a tedious school assignment into a game-like competition, kids will become engaged with it. If you add a rewards-based loyalty program to your product, people will choose it over a rival. The key word here is "product", not "service" as we provide here.
The author argues that time has come to "game-ify" all of the boring industries so that users will be motivated to use products and services because they want to, not because they have to. In fact, the author argues that just about any task can be designed so that it can be more fun. Just what becomes of the people involved?
If I had to have brain surgery, I would NOT want the operating surgeon to be engaged in some ridiculous game in which my life only counts as points to winning or losing. No thanks. You might find this example a bit extreme, and it is, but the author of this book suggests that EVERYTHING in life should be made "fun" and "game-like". So what else? Frequent flier miles to help stop the genocide in Darfur? Is that really what we all believe life should come down to? Are we so ignorant on the whole that we buy into this?
Why can't the Internal Revenue Service create some incentives so that filling out your taxes is fun? Yeah, because taxes are fun. I get a green stamp and a gold star for doing my taxes on time. I am certain that will motivate the masses of uneducated game playing losers.
It is a dumbing down of everything. Sure, some adults play games. There is a time and a place for it, as with anything.
Part of the problem is that flirt4free is already, by nature, fun. Our customers already love the performers. More advertising to bring in new customers is a given. As an adult based site providing intimacy to those unable or unwilling to obtain it in "real" life should not be a game. I don't need my masturbating to be like Grand Prix auto, or have my intimate moments with favorite models compared to others using a ranking system, all to promote the fortunes of the owners of the game. Not the players, not the game pieces, but the manufacturers. It simply does not mesh with an interactive adult site, as it doesn't mesh with any real service industry. Trying to make an adult site, with all that psychology that this sort of work entails, into an adolescent game is to change the dynamic of the relationships within the site. So all the adults will eventually leave and what will you be left with? Adolescents. Kids pretending to be adults, and kids don't spend big money. Adults do.
Sometimes a site like flirt is the only adult outlet for someone who has a fetish or a fantasy. Is it really appropriate to turn it into a game?
I also find the entire "make it a game" concept disturbing because games do have an END. The author suggests that funware should go on in perpetuity. Whether a person completes the game, or tires of the game and quits, the game always ends in one way or another. If we use video games as an example: a gamer might play a particular game two, maybe three times, then it is off to another game. If there is no end goal, if there is no REAL incentive to keep playing the game, then who will be interested in it in the long term if no one ultimately wins?
I have had some customers stay with me for 10 years of working on cam. The entire 10 years. They stayed because of the personal relationship I was able to develop with them, not because it was a game. "Funware" removes the personal aspect. These guys could easily go to a bar or even to their wives to get the same game. "I want to be her favorite so I'll buy her another drink". The customers who are spending 100k a year are not here to engage in a game and have their spending habits exposed for all to see. They are here for intimate moments with someone who isn't out to stab them in the back, who isn't going to judge them, but who is going to accept and at least pretend to care for them for the duration of their 'private' show. Privacy being another concept that is being weeded out. The anonymous button does not remove the effect that gaming has on the model or the client. A customer can still see a name ahead, and still feel badly because their illusion of being adored and favored is thus shattered.
Now, another aspect of this book is about removing obstacles for the potential players. The lowering of requirements for membership to a mere email address? Right out of this book. Get as many players as you possibly can to sign up so they can all compete with each other. Now granted this does appear to have a dual purpose in that somehow these increased numbers who are able to access everything works with search engines to increase traffic. Looking at it from the VS side, who does this really hurt? Well, it hurts the models. It hurts the paying customers. It does damage to the integrity of the site as a whole. It increases begging and abuse and that hurts everyone. A paying customer who visits a room and sees nothing but a sea of beggars isn't likely to stay in that room long, and unless the model has some customers who she has a personal relationship with to "rescue" her to a private show, she isn't going to get any business. White is now the new grey. The effort of VS to get everyone to buy a VIP account is utterly absurd. More and more good, and potentially good customers get lost in the sea of bleating whites who SHOULD be grey. Ultimately this will cause performers to quit and good clients to leave. What will be left then? Video on Demand. The future of Flirt4free will be VOD as a commodity. It will no longer be a service industry. It will follow in the footsteps of the "College Girls" sites from the 90's with recycled content being the primary method of earning potential even a decade later.
The author makes a claim that the interpersonal relationships between people, in a professional environment, is nothing but a game. He completely negates any human aspect to it, basically calling anyone who doesn't play this "game" a loser. The regular in your room who you do enjoy chatting with, despite it being work and your job, is nothing but a game. According to what the author says, there is absolutely no personal aspect to this relationship. It is a game to be exploited with no regard for the people involved.
In one chapter the author talks about World of Warcraft and what a negative thing it was. This game was addictive and did destroy lives. In the same breath he starts discussing how to exploit it. How to use it to get people addicted. The point of any business is to make money, it's a given. How are you going to have a customer for life if you set up your product to destroy them? We're talking about mindless zombies who will barely be able to keep working and functioning and feeding their money into our pockets as the bank kicks them out of their houses and takes their cars all while the Carney barker in drag disguised as a "game" shouts "SHOVE YA MONEY IN HEAH!!!! BE THE FIRST TO WIN A SPIN!!! PLAY THE GAME AND PROVE YA A MAN!!!". That's IF this game works out the way that it appears to be intended. How very Machiavellian.
There is such a thing as corporate personhood. The supreme court ruled under the first amendment that a corporation could act as a person. The thought of this is frightening, but if the business is a person then as Peter Drucker says, the business while making money is also being judged by other business, the consumers, and the market itself as to whether it has integrity, is personally responsible, and honorable.
So who does this game hurt? It hurts me, it hurts you, and it hurts your clients. It takes what is meant to at least provide the illusion of a close, intimate relationship between model and customer and turns it into an impersonal competition between all of a performers' fans. Where only one guy gets the allegedly good feeling of being #1 and a few meaningless points. The illusion of each individual being special is shattered, and seriously like I said, guys can just go to a bar for that and pay a hell of a lot less.
Are you willing to risk the entire future of flirt4free on just another marketing shtick? Perhaps you should just purchase Inflatable dolls with their huge 'O' shaped mouths, frozen forever in an expression of either shock or horror to sit in front of cams. We all know there are plenty of models doing that anyway. With the personal element slowly being removed, this substitution of shocked dolls and backup bicycle pumps would probably be more 'cost effective' and you would have fewer contractor complaints. Not to mention no longer having to deal with studio's and all the back stabbing bitchery that entails.
Some customers have already expressed their displeasure with the concept in the VIP forums, and some of those have indeed left. Other customers have already displayed the adolescent obsession with the game rather than with the models. Yet others are becoming even more jealous and difficult to handle in open chat when confronted with a rival. Based upon their comments in the forums, VS should consider offering online gaming programs as an option for customers.
*kisses and licks*
Esoterik
Thank you for taking the time to read it and review it. I am so glad there are still people like you around.... Quote
Do keep in mind that the techniques pushed in this book have not been tested in an adult entertainment arena.
First of all, the author's ability to write is not impressive in the least. It appears that he intended that the book be laid out like a text book, but somehow that was mangled horribly. It makes the book difficult to read and certain points that are related are pages apart due to horribly placed side bars.
Second, the author is taking a psychological metaphor literally and is using it to justify "fun ware" for everything. "Game playing" in psychology pertains to the archetypal scripts that are played out. An example is the script between an adult and a child. As psychological health improves, the game playing stops. The author comes off as borderline obsessive about games in general.
He claims that the line between work and play are blurring. I find this in particular disturbing. I appreciate professional boundaries in any industry and am always uncomfortable when it is otherwise. I do not want to call on a cop for protection and find that it is all a game and fun. Every time I have had to call on the police for help, it certainly wasn't fun for me. Imagine going to a gynecologist who was turning their environment into a game? "Ahhh...yes...you have herpes....you lose 5 points in the game".
Another absurd and disturbing topic that was brought up in the book was the army's brilliance in using games to recruit soldiers. At one time potential recruits were encouraged to play graphic video games specifically designed to make them feel pumped about killing people. This is present in many video games on the market, but there absolutely has to be a line drawn when it comes to something as serious as killing, even in a time of war. What happens though, in a situation like this? It all becomes a game, everyone is competing, and then Abu Ghraib happens. How are appropriate boundaries supposed to be upheld when the solitary goal in life is to play the game and win? A good deal of insight on this matter can be found in the book "On killing" by Dave Grossman. It doesn't apply to the entire game based marketing idea, but it does counter Zichermann and Linder's praise of the army and their attempts to use this tactic.
Funware is an intuitive concept. If you turn work into a game, people willingly do it. If you make a tedious school assignment into a game-like competition, kids will become engaged with it. If you add a rewards-based loyalty program to your product, people will choose it over a rival. The key word here is "product", not "service" as we provide here.
The author argues that time has come to "game-ify" all of the boring industries so that users will be motivated to use products and services because they want to, not because they have to. In fact, the author argues that just about any task can be designed so that it can be more fun. Just what becomes of the people involved?
If I had to have brain surgery, I would NOT want the operating surgeon to be engaged in some ridiculous game in which my life only counts as points to winning or losing. No thanks. You might find this example a bit extreme, and it is, but the author of this book suggests that EVERYTHING in life should be made "fun" and "game-like". So what else? Frequent flier miles to help stop the genocide in Darfur? Is that really what we all believe life should come down to? Are we so ignorant on the whole that we buy into this?
Why can't the Internal Revenue Service create some incentives so that filling out your taxes is fun? Yeah, because taxes are fun. I get a green stamp and a gold star for doing my taxes on time. I am certain that will motivate the masses of uneducated game playing losers.
It is a dumbing down of everything. Sure, some adults play games. There is a time and a place for it, as with anything.
Part of the problem is that flirt4free is already, by nature, fun. Our customers already love the performers. More advertising to bring in new customers is a given. As an adult based site providing intimacy to those unable or unwilling to obtain it in "real" life should not be a game. I don't need my masturbating to be like Grand Prix auto, or have my intimate moments with favorite models compared to others using a ranking system, all to promote the fortunes of the owners of the game. Not the players, not the game pieces, but the manufacturers. It simply does not mesh with an interactive adult site, as it doesn't mesh with any real service industry. Trying to make an adult site, with all that psychology that this sort of work entails, into an adolescent game is to change the dynamic of the relationships within the site. So all the adults will eventually leave and what will you be left with? Adolescents. Kids pretending to be adults, and kids don't spend big money. Adults do.
Sometimes a site like flirt is the only adult outlet for someone who has a fetish or a fantasy. Is it really appropriate to turn it into a game?
I also find the entire "make it a game" concept disturbing because games do have an END. The author suggests that funware should go on in perpetuity. Whether a person completes the game, or tires of the game and quits, the game always ends in one way or another. If we use video games as an example: a gamer might play a particular game two, maybe three times, then it is off to another game. If there is no end goal, if there is no REAL incentive to keep playing the game, then who will be interested in it in the long term if no one ultimately wins?
I have had some customers stay with me for 10 years of working on cam. The entire 10 years. They stayed because of the personal relationship I was able to develop with them, not because it was a game. "Funware" removes the personal aspect. These guys could easily go to a bar or even to their wives to get the same game. "I want to be her favorite so I'll buy her another drink". The customers who are spending 100k a year are not here to engage in a game and have their spending habits exposed for all to see. They are here for intimate moments with someone who isn't out to stab them in the back, who isn't going to judge them, but who is going to accept and at least pretend to care for them for the duration of their 'private' show. Privacy being another concept that is being weeded out. The anonymous button does not remove the effect that gaming has on the model or the client. A customer can still see a name ahead, and still feel badly because their illusion of being adored and favored is thus shattered.
Now, another aspect of this book is about removing obstacles for the potential players. The lowering of requirements for membership to a mere email address? Right out of this book. Get as many players as you possibly can to sign up so they can all compete with each other. Now granted this does appear to have a dual purpose in that somehow these increased numbers who are able to access everything works with search engines to increase traffic. Looking at it from the VS side, who does this really hurt? Well, it hurts the models. It hurts the paying customers. It does damage to the integrity of the site as a whole. It increases begging and abuse and that hurts everyone. A paying customer who visits a room and sees nothing but a sea of beggars isn't likely to stay in that room long, and unless the model has some customers who she has a personal relationship with to "rescue" her to a private show, she isn't going to get any business. White is now the new grey. The effort of VS to get everyone to buy a VIP account is utterly absurd. More and more good, and potentially good customers get lost in the sea of bleating whites who SHOULD be grey. Ultimately this will cause performers to quit and good clients to leave. What will be left then? Video on Demand. The future of Flirt4free will be VOD as a commodity. It will no longer be a service industry. It will follow in the footsteps of the "College Girls" sites from the 90's with recycled content being the primary method of earning potential even a decade later.
The author makes a claim that the interpersonal relationships between people, in a professional environment, is nothing but a game. He completely negates any human aspect to it, basically calling anyone who doesn't play this "game" a loser. The regular in your room who you do enjoy chatting with, despite it being work and your job, is nothing but a game. According to what the author says, there is absolutely no personal aspect to this relationship. It is a game to be exploited with no regard for the people involved.
In one chapter the author talks about World of Warcraft and what a negative thing it was. This game was addictive and did destroy lives. In the same breath he starts discussing how to exploit it. How to use it to get people addicted. The point of any business is to make money, it's a given. How are you going to have a customer for life if you set up your product to destroy them? We're talking about mindless zombies who will barely be able to keep working and functioning and feeding their money into our pockets as the bank kicks them out of their houses and takes their cars all while the Carney barker in drag disguised as a "game" shouts "SHOVE YA MONEY IN HEAH!!!! BE THE FIRST TO WIN A SPIN!!! PLAY THE GAME AND PROVE YA A MAN!!!". That's IF this game works out the way that it appears to be intended. How very Machiavellian.
There is such a thing as corporate personhood. The supreme court ruled under the first amendment that a corporation could act as a person. The thought of this is frightening, but if the business is a person then as Peter Drucker says, the business while making money is also being judged by other business, the consumers, and the market itself as to whether it has integrity, is personally responsible, and honorable.
So who does this game hurt? It hurts me, it hurts you, and it hurts your clients. It takes what is meant to at least provide the illusion of a close, intimate relationship between model and customer and turns it into an impersonal competition between all of a performers' fans. Where only one guy gets the allegedly good feeling of being #1 and a few meaningless points. The illusion of each individual being special is shattered, and seriously like I said, guys can just go to a bar for that and pay a hell of a lot less.
Are you willing to risk the entire future of flirt4free on just another marketing shtick? Perhaps you should just purchase Inflatable dolls with their huge 'O' shaped mouths, frozen forever in an expression of either shock or horror to sit in front of cams. We all know there are plenty of models doing that anyway. With the personal element slowly being removed, this substitution of shocked dolls and backup bicycle pumps would probably be more 'cost effective' and you would have fewer contractor complaints. Not to mention no longer having to deal with studio's and all the back stabbing bitchery that entails.
Some customers have already expressed their displeasure with the concept in the VIP forums, and some of those have indeed left. Other customers have already displayed the adolescent obsession with the game rather than with the models. Yet others are becoming even more jealous and difficult to handle in open chat when confronted with a rival. Based upon their comments in the forums, VS should consider offering online gaming programs as an option for customers.
*kisses and licks*
Esoterik
Thank you for taking the time to read it and review it. I am so glad there are still people like you around.... Quote
Created by:
dan_in_florida
7/15/10 @ 8:46pm
(EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Location: Sunny South Florida - with a REALLY cool car :-)
Posts: 1,498
I was gonna comment on the utter uselessness of any idea or opinion offered up by the likes of Carl, but I see that you must already know him well. I fear though that you have denigrated the superior mental abilities of cabbages by comparing them to him, LOL. 
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jeez, write you major thesis on another site and don't try to be so esoteric to make yourself seem intelligent take a few more drugs and break it all down again
wow u are really an arrogant piece of work i thought the day u were a total asshole to me in a another models room it was a once off but now its easy to see you truely are a self piittying pathetic little sole that no one will ever like let alone love oh and btw dont ever come into my room what u said to me that day was enough for me to be disgusted at the mere sight of your name let alone actually having to speak to you again.
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wow u are really an arrogant piece of work i thought the day u were a total asshole to me in a another models room it was a once off but now its easy to see you truely are a self piittying pathetic little sole that no one will ever like let alone love oh and btw dont ever come into my room what u said to me that day was enough for me to be disgusted at the mere sight of your name let alone actually having to speak to you again.
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Created by:
blonde_lover
7/15/10 @ 10:35pm
(EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Location: utah
Posts: 202
I posted over a year ago if you make the soup to thin you spit it out!!! Funny this author had the same ideas i was thinking about . 
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wow u are really an arrogant piece of work i thought the day u were a total asshole to me in a another models room it was a once off but now its easy to see you truely are a self piittying pathetic little sole that no one will ever like let alone love oh and btw dont ever come into my room what u said to me that day was enough for me to be disgusted at the mere sight of your name let alone actually having to speak to you again.
i'm guessing you aren't into josh groban either.
esoterick i appreciate your lengthy dissertation, and i agree with most of it. though here, a lot of guys prefer if we sit and look pretty and pop open our mouths in a fuckdollesque expression when requested. however, we have both discovered that there are plenty of guys that also like someone interesting and fun to talk to as well as nice to look at. on the site we have the luxury of avoiding the rooms of people we don't mesh with, and ignoring or booting disruptive members, the forum is a whole other dynamic.
anyway i think the type of people who would enjoy this game the most are too young to be on the site or are already busy with farmville.
in the words of cthulu (who i know will have something to say on this thread) "i can't have a conversation with my hand"
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i'm guessing you aren't into josh groban either.
esoterick i appreciate your lengthy dissertation, and i agree with most of it. though here, a lot of guys prefer if we sit and look pretty and pop open our mouths in a fuckdollesque expression when requested. however, we have both discovered that there are plenty of guys that also like someone interesting and fun to talk to as well as nice to look at. on the site we have the luxury of avoiding the rooms of people we don't mesh with, and ignoring or booting disruptive members, the forum is a whole other dynamic.
anyway i think the type of people who would enjoy this game the most are too young to be on the site or are already busy with farmville.
in the words of cthulu (who i know will have something to say on this thread) "i can't have a conversation with my hand"
Late breaking news: one CAN have a conversation with their hand, but only after a sufficient amount of mescaline or tequila.
From my vantage perch in the clocktower above the city (where I fight crime), I see the problem with this book as being just another facet of a cancer that is pervading 21st-century society. The problem can be simply put as: people try to quantify the qualitative.
I've said it before and I will say it again: you cannot quantify the qualitative.
There are reams of academic papers and books on motivation theory. It is quite reasonable, after reading many of these, to conclude that every action has an incentive behind it. It is also reasonable to conclude that maximizing the incentive makes the action more likely to take place.
Guys, this is about as far as you can go on this matter. Incentives aren't neatly pigeonholed into a linear competition. As Esoterick points out, the incentive for many customers is basic human intimacy. As VS maintains, the incentive for customers is the social standing of being 'the top fan'. Likely, the truth is even more varied than that; a hodgepodge of people wanting to be top of the heap, looking to fulfill hard-to-satisfy fetishes, or simply feeling a connection to someone else. The incentives are as multivariate as the customer base.
To assume that most people operate on the principle of winning the social standing game is like assuming everyone is a 43 year old computer programmer from the midwest. Everyone has something to gain out of this site; from companionship to orgasms and every permutation in between.
That having been said, I can see the motivation to include a game mentality as the demographics are shifting. The economy being what it is, it is in VS's best interest to target a customer base that has a large, RENEWABLE amount of disposable income (to ensure repeat business), without competing interests, with copious free time and access to the Intertubes. It seems to me that they are targeting the younger-to-middle-age computer nerd mentality (with the odd multitrillionaire philanthropist to boot). It just so happens that this target demographic has a fetish for games and competition. How many customers play XBox, World of Warcraft, or Scrabulous? VS has migrated from an adult-star-site to what you see today. It follows that VS (Brad et al) will want to keep the site evolving and fresh.
So, then, the question is, how can we reconcile the need for the business model to stay fresh and the demographic shifts with what Esoterick described? She describes those with the the need for genuine human interaction, and intimacy, or an 'escape' from the challenges from society. It could very well be that those people are becoming a relative minority. Thus, it follows that the whites being the new greys, and the general "bro-ification" of the member base is part of this same demographic shift. Think about the people calling you racial or other slurs on Xbox Live. These are people with an intense need to compete over pointless stuff, who also have no problem saying "open bubz and i go pvt." They are walking, talking examples of John Gabriel's Greater Fuckwad Theory, and it is entirely tenable that this is our future. In which case, game based marketing is a way of welcoming our new bubz-opening overlords and their disposable income.
Does this mean that the burgeoning masses and their militant mediocrity will spell the end of genuine interaction on this site? I would posit no. Clearly, games and competition have a place on this site. Esoterick's suggestions, for example, were great and they should be taken.
Likewise, I think, rearranging the forums to function more like a forum on other sites - with inter-member messaging, user based moderation, and other content as one would see on anything running UBB for example, will help. It will allow the recognition of distinct personalities and 'superstars' without having the need to call people on on their proclivities.
Finally, I think VS needs to realize that the number one incentive to purchase paid shows is CONTENT. If there is anything we can learn from the Web bubble crash, and the rise and uneasy plateau of Web 2.0 fucktardery, it is that content is king. I don't care how many theme specials there are ("PINE" AWAY FOR YOUR FAVORITE MODEL ARBOR DAY SPECIAL! 10% EXTRA CREDITS FOR ALL MODELS IN THE "LUMBERJACK" CATEGORY), the fact is that content is the one thing that buys shows.
And content is subjective. It cannot be measured or put into a linear programming spreadsheet and subjected to trend analysis. At best it can be analyzed statistically and some rough, grunting ideas toward consensus can be expressed. Yet, in a world where the rail-thin and BBWs rub elbows, or where people can express disgust and approval toward the same fetish, it is obvious that there is no standard for content. Thus content is, in a certain sense, untameable by things like Game Based Marketing (TM)
In fact, games *THEMSELVES* are examples of the power of content. Video game sales are down for the past three quarters. Movie sales too. Why? Because in an era of recession, people are getting more conservative with their ideas, and so content is recycled at best. (Gritty reboots of Transformers? GI Joe? A-Team? Smurfs? Etc?) Poor content? Poor sales.
Bottom line: Games allow people to optimize for quantitative inputs. This helps to a certain degree in the short run, but in the long run, VS needs to optimize for QUALITATIVE inputs, and that means keep up the quality of (subjective) content. This means:
- Better forums that foster a sense of community
- Models that enjoy or at least pretend to enjoy what they are doing and interaction with the members
- Models and scenarios that appeal to a wide variety of interests.
Can this be done?
PS. I would have written this earlier, CE, but I was busy playing Farmville. Quote
Created by:
carousel
7/16/10 @ 1:54am
(EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Location: forgotten backroad standing still in time
Posts: 761
These guys could easily go to a bar or even to their wives to get the same game. "I want to be her favorite so I'll buy her another drink". The customers who are spending 100k a year are not here to engage in a game and have their spending habits exposed for all to see. They are here for intimate moments with someone who isn't out to stab them in the back, who isn't going to judge them, but who is going to accept and at least pretend to care for them for the duration of their 'private' show. Privacy being another concept that is being weeded out. The anonymous button does not remove the effect that gaming has on the model or the client. A customer can still see a name ahead, and still feel badly because their illusion of being adored and favored is thus shattered.
Dont think I'd change jobs with Brad if they paid me.
And regardless of opinion regarding MM & her 9 other lives(nicks)/Eso's review
Right, wrong, or otherwise; this particular quoted paragraph: ... quite accurate
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Dont think I'd change jobs with Brad if they paid me.
And regardless of opinion regarding MM & her 9 other lives(nicks)/Eso's review
Right, wrong, or otherwise; this particular quoted paragraph: ... quite accurate
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Hmm...so what you're saying is that there's a special new way one needs to market pussy in order to sell it? The younger demographic isn't interested in sex?
I understand adding features to make it more interactive and fun, and in a different thread I suggested a few things that are both appropriate and fun. The #1 fan game is invasive.
The book that sparked the #1 fan game makes no reference to the human, or personal, aspects of marketing.
This new "demographic" is filled with pirates and guys who know how to find porn for free. That is exactly what they do and will continue to do. I can grasp the whole "For every one thousand hits the sites get maybe 10 will sign up" idea. So we invade the privacy of the customers and try to turn them against each other? Way to cause increased drama in rooms when #1 and #2 are in there slinging shit at each other. We all know the drama in rooms is at times barely manageable.
If VS is going to base the future on this particular book, then they need to find another way to do it. There are plenty of options available to entertain those who aren't already entertained by pussy or the company of a beautiful woman.
*kisses and licks*
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I understand adding features to make it more interactive and fun, and in a different thread I suggested a few things that are both appropriate and fun. The #1 fan game is invasive.
The book that sparked the #1 fan game makes no reference to the human, or personal, aspects of marketing.
This new "demographic" is filled with pirates and guys who know how to find porn for free. That is exactly what they do and will continue to do. I can grasp the whole "For every one thousand hits the sites get maybe 10 will sign up" idea. So we invade the privacy of the customers and try to turn them against each other? Way to cause increased drama in rooms when #1 and #2 are in there slinging shit at each other. We all know the drama in rooms is at times barely manageable.
If VS is going to base the future on this particular book, then they need to find another way to do it. There are plenty of options available to entertain those who aren't already entertained by pussy or the company of a beautiful woman.
*kisses and licks*
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Hmm...so what you're saying is that there's a special new way one needs to market pussy in order to sell it? The younger demographic isn't interested in sex?
This new "demographic" is filled with pirates and guys who know how to find porn for free. That is exactly what they do and will continue to do.
You just answered your own question. The new demographic is interested in sex as a commodity. As such, their primary interest is in receiving it at the lowest price or for free. This new demographic probably views beer as a commodity too, and likewise optimises for price instead of quality. Ever drank Beast Lite?
Can you blame them for viewing sex as a commodity? If many of the models are, as you put it, O-faced blow-up dolls, what is to differentiate? Especially when their command of the language is a few auto-translated macros.
Wiki the article "Prostitution in Ancient Greece" and you will see a hierarchy of courtesan/sex worker. At the bottom were the "pornai" -- basically, fuck holes. At the top were the "hetaera" -- the educated female companion whose fate you seem to lament. Put simply, the masses crave pornai and not hetaera -- the latest marketing schtick is simply revealing that.
This is not to say that it is the death of quality. Bro's everywhere are swilling Natty Lite and PBR, and yet microbrews are still thriving. But these are a series of niche markets. It could very well be time for VS to diversify its brands. PornForBros.com and HetaeraForLonelyGuys.com and HeyFulfillYourNicheFetish.com. It's really just a matter of allocating models to the right sites and buying more than one domain name.
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This new "demographic" is filled with pirates and guys who know how to find porn for free. That is exactly what they do and will continue to do.
You just answered your own question. The new demographic is interested in sex as a commodity. As such, their primary interest is in receiving it at the lowest price or for free. This new demographic probably views beer as a commodity too, and likewise optimises for price instead of quality. Ever drank Beast Lite?
Can you blame them for viewing sex as a commodity? If many of the models are, as you put it, O-faced blow-up dolls, what is to differentiate? Especially when their command of the language is a few auto-translated macros.
Wiki the article "Prostitution in Ancient Greece" and you will see a hierarchy of courtesan/sex worker. At the bottom were the "pornai" -- basically, fuck holes. At the top were the "hetaera" -- the educated female companion whose fate you seem to lament. Put simply, the masses crave pornai and not hetaera -- the latest marketing schtick is simply revealing that.
This is not to say that it is the death of quality. Bro's everywhere are swilling Natty Lite and PBR, and yet microbrews are still thriving. But these are a series of niche markets. It could very well be time for VS to diversify its brands. PornForBros.com and HetaeraForLonelyGuys.com and HeyFulfillYourNicheFetish.com. It's really just a matter of allocating models to the right sites and buying more than one domain name.
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Oh dear me, where do I begin. The following are paraphrases of your exhortations and illustrations; "ship the Jamba Juice to this place" model allocations; "let's accept that market studies prove that women are, by quantifiable polling numbers of our membership, objects" self-affirming positions; "take a look at the manner in which the most violent and base culture in human history characterized and rank ordered their hoes". I've placed quotation marks surrounding these statements in order to separate them, as they should be, from the realities here *waves arms to indicate the squalid conditions that the female of the species being addressed as boxes of hamburger in the shipping network, for the most part, exist in*.
You persist in missing the point, on the one hand you belittle the market makers running this business, and then immediately wave a wand and dismiss the product aka women as suitably defined as blow up dolls turning my comments on their head. Masterful oratory, but you once again miss the point. To speak clearly then, the issue of paramount importance to ME, male, is that what is being done here makes a detestable situation WORSE for the BEER you claim to care so deeply about. Read yourself closely chutlu, discuss it with your new partner, wander the views and points of interest in your village and inquire of the random woman what she makes of this situation.
Chutlu I had expected that someone who had spent the energy that you have in currying favor with a number of the models, who has visited and spent time and energy on the same sites that I have, whos been involved in this mileau almost as long as I, might have experienced some catharsis of perspective. Sadly, you disappoint. Models can not kick or ban which leaves them being abused by "members" and now having to deal with the cat fighting between publicly displayed "Fans". A number of models do not see their tips or the money from gifts given. You're playing devils advocate for the people who have no real vested interest in the well being of anyone on this site outside of dollar signs.. in short.. WHO'S pulling YOUR PUPPET STRINGS? YOU are evidence of the removal of self determination that should be squashed by any so called "friend of models". Your hypocrisy is appalling and hurtful. The contest only HEIGHTENS the resentment and anger, which I have pointed out before.
All of this that i've said.. will be dismissed by you, and even some models, especially the young ones. All of your counter arguments have been around, lol well, to quote you, since the roman empire. You'll just pull them up again, and dismiss us all, as 'fucking loony dykes' or 'women'.
I know that you seek desperately to prove some issue to yourself, frankly beyond the obvious issue of intellectual superiority, what it might be doesnt matter to me. Remain as Lard BigBrain, Master of the Cam Site *hands over the purple sash and Homies baseball cap I was awarded by Bailey and Sleepless over 9 years ago*, wear these with pride and make sure to clarify with Neil at the site that must remain unnamed what their import is. Likewise, I recognize that you are of a personality design that demands that you have the final word in this matter. That however, will mean little to me, for as most have been informed, unlike that corn cob fetishist General George McArthur, I hope never to return. Quote
You persist in missing the point, on the one hand you belittle the market makers running this business, and then immediately wave a wand and dismiss the product aka women as suitably defined as blow up dolls turning my comments on their head. Masterful oratory, but you once again miss the point. To speak clearly then, the issue of paramount importance to ME, male, is that what is being done here makes a detestable situation WORSE for the BEER you claim to care so deeply about. Read yourself closely chutlu, discuss it with your new partner, wander the views and points of interest in your village and inquire of the random woman what she makes of this situation.
Chutlu I had expected that someone who had spent the energy that you have in currying favor with a number of the models, who has visited and spent time and energy on the same sites that I have, whos been involved in this mileau almost as long as I, might have experienced some catharsis of perspective. Sadly, you disappoint. Models can not kick or ban which leaves them being abused by "members" and now having to deal with the cat fighting between publicly displayed "Fans". A number of models do not see their tips or the money from gifts given. You're playing devils advocate for the people who have no real vested interest in the well being of anyone on this site outside of dollar signs.. in short.. WHO'S pulling YOUR PUPPET STRINGS? YOU are evidence of the removal of self determination that should be squashed by any so called "friend of models". Your hypocrisy is appalling and hurtful. The contest only HEIGHTENS the resentment and anger, which I have pointed out before.
All of this that i've said.. will be dismissed by you, and even some models, especially the young ones. All of your counter arguments have been around, lol well, to quote you, since the roman empire. You'll just pull them up again, and dismiss us all, as 'fucking loony dykes' or 'women'.
I know that you seek desperately to prove some issue to yourself, frankly beyond the obvious issue of intellectual superiority, what it might be doesnt matter to me. Remain as Lard BigBrain, Master of the Cam Site *hands over the purple sash and Homies baseball cap I was awarded by Bailey and Sleepless over 9 years ago*, wear these with pride and make sure to clarify with Neil at the site that must remain unnamed what their import is. Likewise, I recognize that you are of a personality design that demands that you have the final word in this matter. That however, will mean little to me, for as most have been informed, unlike that corn cob fetishist General George McArthur, I hope never to return. Quote
Oh dear me, where do I begin. The following are paraphrases of your exhortations and illustrations; "ship the Jamba Juice to this place" model allocations; "let's accept that market studies prove that women are, by quantifiable polling numbers of our membership, objects" self-affirming positions; "take a look at the manner in which the most violent and base culture in human history characterized and rank ordered their hoes". I've placed quotation marks surrounding these statements in order to separate them, as they should be, from the realities here *waves arms to indicate the squalid conditions that the female of the species being addressed as boxes of hamburger in the shipping network, for the most part, exist in*.
You persist in missing the point, on the one hand you belittle the market makers running this business, and then immediately wave a wand and dismiss the product aka women as suitably defined as blow up dolls turning my comments on their head. Masterful oratory, but you once again miss the point. To speak clearly then, the issue of paramount importance to ME, male, is that what is being done here makes a detestable situation WORSE for the BEER you claim to care so deeply about. Read yourself closely chutlu, discuss it with your new partner, wander the views and points of interest in your village and inquire of the random woman what she makes of this situation.
Chutlu I had expected that someone who had spent the energy that you have in currying favor with a number of the models, who has visited and spent time and energy on the same sites that I have, whos been involved in this mileau almost as long as I, might have experienced some catharsis of perspective. Sadly, you disappoint. Models can not kick or ban which leaves them being abused by "members" and now having to deal with the cat fighting between publicly displayed "Fans". A number of models do not see their tips or the money from gifts given. You're playing devils advocate for the people who have no real vested interest in the well being of anyone on this site outside of dollar signs.. in short.. WHO'S pulling YOUR PUPPET STRINGS? YOU are evidence of the removal of self determination that should be squashed by any so called "friend of models". Your hypocrisy is appalling and hurtful. The contest only HEIGHTENS the resentment and anger, which I have pointed out before.
All of this that i've said.. will be dismissed by you, and even some models, especially the young ones. All of your counter arguments have been around, lol well, to quote you, since the roman empire. You'll just pull them up again, and dismiss us all, as 'fucking loony dykes' or 'women'.
I know that you seek desperately to prove some issue to yourself, frankly beyond the obvious issue of intellectual superiority, what it might be doesnt matter to me. Remain as Lard BigBrain, Master of the Cam Site *hands over the purple sash and Homies baseball cap I was awarded by Bailey and Sleepless over 9 years ago*, wear these with pride and make sure to clarify with Neil at the site that must remain unnamed what their import is. Likewise, I recognize that you are of a personality design that demands that you have the final word in this matter. That however, will mean little to me, for as most have been informed, unlike that corn cob fetishist General George McArthur, I hope never to return.
I pride myself on being able to play devil's advocate and to try hard to see both sides of the situation, but in this case I've run out of turds to polish. The counters I have thrown to your argument are getting progressively weaker and weaker (as I run out of any conceivable angle to test your argument) and your argument stays as strong as ever. Thusly tempered, I can say your argument has passed pretty much any curveball that could be thrown at it. It stands firm.
So now, I think the "you're part of the problem or part of the solution" situation becomes cogent. The world is becoming stupider and the beer, so to speak, cheaper, and while this seems a Sisyphean task to do, I don't think there are any "neutral bystanders" here.
You made good alternate suggestions. I for one support them. I am sure many more do. Let's hear more from those who do.
Quote
You persist in missing the point, on the one hand you belittle the market makers running this business, and then immediately wave a wand and dismiss the product aka women as suitably defined as blow up dolls turning my comments on their head. Masterful oratory, but you once again miss the point. To speak clearly then, the issue of paramount importance to ME, male, is that what is being done here makes a detestable situation WORSE for the BEER you claim to care so deeply about. Read yourself closely chutlu, discuss it with your new partner, wander the views and points of interest in your village and inquire of the random woman what she makes of this situation.
Chutlu I had expected that someone who had spent the energy that you have in currying favor with a number of the models, who has visited and spent time and energy on the same sites that I have, whos been involved in this mileau almost as long as I, might have experienced some catharsis of perspective. Sadly, you disappoint. Models can not kick or ban which leaves them being abused by "members" and now having to deal with the cat fighting between publicly displayed "Fans". A number of models do not see their tips or the money from gifts given. You're playing devils advocate for the people who have no real vested interest in the well being of anyone on this site outside of dollar signs.. in short.. WHO'S pulling YOUR PUPPET STRINGS? YOU are evidence of the removal of self determination that should be squashed by any so called "friend of models". Your hypocrisy is appalling and hurtful. The contest only HEIGHTENS the resentment and anger, which I have pointed out before.
All of this that i've said.. will be dismissed by you, and even some models, especially the young ones. All of your counter arguments have been around, lol well, to quote you, since the roman empire. You'll just pull them up again, and dismiss us all, as 'fucking loony dykes' or 'women'.
I know that you seek desperately to prove some issue to yourself, frankly beyond the obvious issue of intellectual superiority, what it might be doesnt matter to me. Remain as Lard BigBrain, Master of the Cam Site *hands over the purple sash and Homies baseball cap I was awarded by Bailey and Sleepless over 9 years ago*, wear these with pride and make sure to clarify with Neil at the site that must remain unnamed what their import is. Likewise, I recognize that you are of a personality design that demands that you have the final word in this matter. That however, will mean little to me, for as most have been informed, unlike that corn cob fetishist General George McArthur, I hope never to return.
I pride myself on being able to play devil's advocate and to try hard to see both sides of the situation, but in this case I've run out of turds to polish. The counters I have thrown to your argument are getting progressively weaker and weaker (as I run out of any conceivable angle to test your argument) and your argument stays as strong as ever. Thusly tempered, I can say your argument has passed pretty much any curveball that could be thrown at it. It stands firm.
So now, I think the "you're part of the problem or part of the solution" situation becomes cogent. The world is becoming stupider and the beer, so to speak, cheaper, and while this seems a Sisyphean task to do, I don't think there are any "neutral bystanders" here.
You made good alternate suggestions. I for one support them. I am sure many more do. Let's hear more from those who do.
Quote
Created by:
suggs
7/16/10 @ 8:32pm
(EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Location: Left of centre
Posts: 6,768
Personally I dont bother with the listings of top 10 customers. I was a fan of my favourites before this new CWOT* was implimented.
Since the 'game' has been started has it meant i have altered the # of pvts i have had or the length of them? NOPE, I have carried on regardless.
To me it dont matter if I am 1st, 2nd or 617,934th on a models fan list. Quote
Since the 'game' has been started has it meant i have altered the # of pvts i have had or the length of them? NOPE, I have carried on regardless.
To me it dont matter if I am 1st, 2nd or 617,934th on a models fan list. Quote
Created by:
alberich
7/17/10 @ 9:29pm
(EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Location: breaking in, shaping up, then checking out
Posts: 970
Personally I dont bother with the listings of top 10 customers. I was a fan of my favourites before this new CWOT* was implimented.
Since the 'game' has been started has it meant i have altered the # of pvts i have had or the length of them? NOPE, I have carried on regardless.
To me it dont matter if I am 1st, 2nd or 617,934th on a models fan list.
I have to agree Suggs - If you are a real fan of your fav you are happy with every PVT she (or he) gets - it's the reason she (or he) stays on Flirt.
Even more if you get closer to your favorite (without Flirt it would never have been happened so thx to VS for this).
Giving boosting points to your favorite is a nice feature to show your appreciation for the one you have chosen as your favorite in my opinion. As sad as it sounds not everybody can afford 100k a year (if i could I would even spend billions - but I am not Gates) - but also with less you can have fun with your fav - and (at least according to my experience) - your fav is happy with all the time you are in her room - may it be behind closed curtains or only in open room.
I know this site is about earning money but sometimes (as it is in my case - and I know I am not the only one) you make real friends here - and real friends will never give you up - even if you are not listed in top 10.
A real friend knows his state - he doesn't need to be a top ten listed person - and he is happy for everyone in front of him in ranking.
For some others it's an additional kick to be on top - so they will spend the dollar more and here we have the economical side of this game - and as everything here it is not only a farewell - its major intention is to make money (as the site has to do to stay).
Another thing is the removal of the possibility for banning "arseholes" - I would appreciate if models get it back.
Seeing not only greys but more and more whites and yellows compromising models make me sad especially if calling VS monitor is wasted time in most cases - if they react - that much time passed that the incedent is almost forgotten.
The reason for taking away the ban button from models " because some models abused it in former times" is no real reason for me - if a model abuse it she will have less customers and make less money - so they will cut themself and after a while she is gone.
After my experience the most successful models are the models who know how to run a room and running a room is not typing "if you don't take me PVT fuck off".
The guest today maybe your #1 fan tomorrow and a number 1 fan (whatever his Flirt ranking is) will stay and always be happy to see his favorite.
A great person always makes you feel great - and getting the great feeling is one of the reasons I am around here. Quote
Since the 'game' has been started has it meant i have altered the # of pvts i have had or the length of them? NOPE, I have carried on regardless.
To me it dont matter if I am 1st, 2nd or 617,934th on a models fan list.
I have to agree Suggs - If you are a real fan of your fav you are happy with every PVT she (or he) gets - it's the reason she (or he) stays on Flirt.
Even more if you get closer to your favorite (without Flirt it would never have been happened so thx to VS for this).
Giving boosting points to your favorite is a nice feature to show your appreciation for the one you have chosen as your favorite in my opinion. As sad as it sounds not everybody can afford 100k a year (if i could I would even spend billions - but I am not Gates) - but also with less you can have fun with your fav - and (at least according to my experience) - your fav is happy with all the time you are in her room - may it be behind closed curtains or only in open room.
I know this site is about earning money but sometimes (as it is in my case - and I know I am not the only one) you make real friends here - and real friends will never give you up - even if you are not listed in top 10.
A real friend knows his state - he doesn't need to be a top ten listed person - and he is happy for everyone in front of him in ranking.
For some others it's an additional kick to be on top - so they will spend the dollar more and here we have the economical side of this game - and as everything here it is not only a farewell - its major intention is to make money (as the site has to do to stay).
Another thing is the removal of the possibility for banning "arseholes" - I would appreciate if models get it back.
Seeing not only greys but more and more whites and yellows compromising models make me sad especially if calling VS monitor is wasted time in most cases - if they react - that much time passed that the incedent is almost forgotten.
The reason for taking away the ban button from models " because some models abused it in former times" is no real reason for me - if a model abuse it she will have less customers and make less money - so they will cut themself and after a while she is gone.
After my experience the most successful models are the models who know how to run a room and running a room is not typing "if you don't take me PVT fuck off".
The guest today maybe your #1 fan tomorrow and a number 1 fan (whatever his Flirt ranking is) will stay and always be happy to see his favorite.
A great person always makes you feel great - and getting the great feeling is one of the reasons I am around here. Quote
Created by:
tonydisabled
7/20/10 @ 9:13am
(EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Location: owned by sexi_shanoon in the shhort term
Posts: 140
I have to agree with Suggs ..however i have decided to leave...here is why...in my view Flirt had no right to put a value on a model/client relationship. giving your fav as much attention as you want should be a pvt issue between the model & client
i can see this happening down the road..lets assume that client a is known for being in models y room. client a never reach the top 5. u cant tell me client a wont get teased endlessly cuz he/she is never in the top 5 Quote
well i really hope no one is getting teased because he's not high on the fan totem pole, whoever would do that is a douchebag. i find here than men don't like to talk about money, period, it's just not something to talk about. guys who have it don't usually flaunt it openly, and those without as much don't mention it either. if anyone who was high on the list made fun of someone lower or not on the list is obviously insecure about being a model favorite. just because a guy spends more on a model than someone else doesn't mean she likes him more than someone else. the #1 fan thing attempts to rank something that only the model really knows 
i have people that hang out in my room that rarely or never get shows, and i'm fine with them because they make the experience more fun for me. i will also admit that i like these guys a whole lot more than some of the guys that have taken me pvt. so it just goes to show... you can't buy love, but it won't stop people from trying to
Quote
i have people that hang out in my room that rarely or never get shows, and i'm fine with them because they make the experience more fun for me. i will also admit that i like these guys a whole lot more than some of the guys that have taken me pvt. so it just goes to show... you can't buy love, but it won't stop people from trying to
Quote
MurderedMime,
Thank you for posting this thread, and so eloquently.
Many have expressed chagrin having a part of their spending habits posted so unabashly.
There may be some kind of fetish involving playing games for the sake of playing games, but why could they not at least keep it compartmentalized. Check the reactions, and then turn this site into a circus.
I was appalalled after seeing my name on a list that "rewarded" only one part of my behaviour here.
In the past few weeks I have been exploring other sites to see if there might be one that did not turn a gem of a fantasy experience into a juvenile thrash for cash place. Sadly, they all seem to be racing for the bottom. Yes, the world's economy has changed, but pride of affiliation is not a commodity. Some things are beyond supply and demand.
This site has won awards for it's QUALITY in the past. Some things are beyond price per minute and quotas. This site had that magic, or at least the hope for it.
I want to try and resume participating here. But something has clearly gone awry.
I like idea to just shrug it off and don't look at it. One thing is for certain, I won't be as active when the milieu is poisoned.
MurderMime, you are not alone on this one.
Quote
Thank you for posting this thread, and so eloquently.
Many have expressed chagrin having a part of their spending habits posted so unabashly.
There may be some kind of fetish involving playing games for the sake of playing games, but why could they not at least keep it compartmentalized. Check the reactions, and then turn this site into a circus.
I was appalalled after seeing my name on a list that "rewarded" only one part of my behaviour here.
In the past few weeks I have been exploring other sites to see if there might be one that did not turn a gem of a fantasy experience into a juvenile thrash for cash place. Sadly, they all seem to be racing for the bottom. Yes, the world's economy has changed, but pride of affiliation is not a commodity. Some things are beyond supply and demand.
This site has won awards for it's QUALITY in the past. Some things are beyond price per minute and quotas. This site had that magic, or at least the hope for it.
I want to try and resume participating here. But something has clearly gone awry.
I like idea to just shrug it off and don't look at it. One thing is for certain, I won't be as active when the milieu is poisoned.
MurderMime, you are not alone on this one.
Quote
